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  • #61
    Yeah that's actually true. I wouldn't say Artemis is a better patron in extreme cases, like me for example. I have slightly higher rating with Poseidon than with Artemis. But I think Artemis is like, an easy patron to use for all sorts of people if you're just playing casually. Like it's really easy to go beyond your normal trophies with Artemis without any defined strategy. But with other patrons, you need to use them well, and if that combines with the proper use of patron point, then it creates an extreme outcome. So I guess you're right in saying that different players, different preferences. So I guess it's now just developers' decisions to make. But whatever direction this game decides to go for, hopefully that brings more variety and balance. I don't know, all I personally want, is to see all different kinds of strategies in my defense log and my alliance members' attacks. I don't really mind what method that takes. Even nerfing Artemis and Poseidon, both being the only patrons I actively use.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Unspeakable1 View Post

      "Some" is a gross understatement. I'd wager that nearly 75-90% of all attacks against my city using the OL gods have Arty as patron. Athene even suggested Arty as patron in her advice thread. This is telling. Putting blame where it's due though, her rise in popularity is due to the sum total of nerfing happening. You give no incentive to choose another god as patron, further lessening robustly different strategies in a supposed strategy game. Of course, that's partly on the devs and majority on players since they're often the ones calling for nerfing. Unfortunately, the "fix" will likely be MORE nerfing instead of boosts. It's worked so well for player enjoyment. C'est la vie i guess.

      I'm rather irritated reading this response though. I've suggested numerous times that level needs to be a factor in many things and am shot down by different players AND devs... Only to see that the devs do consider level after all when comparing power level... Hmmm. But not with matching amiright?! Not important in that i guess. I'll digress...

      If it takes community feedback to stop nerfing, maybe we need a thread for forum members to just say "quit nerfing." How many would it take cuz I'll make one if that's the case?
      Artemis patron isn't as powerful as it seems. Most people don't have enough gold to purchase 300 patron points, for spread shot, damage, and health. Artemis has bad damage and health, and upgrades don't give as much more health and damage compared to most other gods. And, Hades patron is very powerful too, with reanimate at a high level and boosted. You would have a huge skeleton army. And, Poseidon as patron with tidal wave at a high level and boosted can cause massive damage to lots of buildings.

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      • #63
        I think the point i was trying to make has been completely lost. I don't think Arty should be nerfed. Full stop. I think the nerfing led to her rise in popularity. Let folks choose whomever, but folks will, generally speaking, gravitate towards whatever gives them more advantage. Right now, in current iteration, Arty has more advantage because she hasn't been the target of nerfing. That does not mean nerf Arty. It means boosting other things to rebalance power and incentivize choosing other gods, even if that means correcting former nerfs (which at the time may have been appropriate) which devs have said in the past they don't want to do. Okay. Go a different route to correct. My personal opinion is always new content. Keeps the game exciting (and oh how i wish those UW gods were added to the OL pantheon, but lets not get on THAT topic).

        Reasoning: take Zeus' time stop for instance. Folks used to complain that it was OP, then Hermes came out and Time Stop was balanced by a power that boosted speed. Nerfing wasn't explicitly required. Of course, Hermes' house now boosts speed less and also bumps up health (could use a stronger boost more akin to an Aphro house) and Time Stop is still a great power (please dont nerf).

        I realize we literally just had the Hecate update so im not saying "thou shalt produce more content tomorrow." I'm still gonna play and encourage others to. I'm just saying in the future please stop thinking that all power balances require nerfing because they create imbalances. If something is OP, consider what could be created to balance things out (that being said, Paris' AoE stun was OP).
        Vi veri universum vivus vici

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        • #64
          Originally posted by JKs View Post

          No but you could definitely balance things to the point where people will start to choose variety of patrons. Nerfing Athena environment is a great example. Everyone used to use Athena, but now players use every Environment. The general preference still exists, like Apollo or Hades (I personally prefer Aphrodite), but you could say balance is somewhat done in that aspect. So we could do something like that. Balance things so players use variety of things.
          This +1000. I hadn't thought of this but it is perfect example of how a nerf could work. The majority of bases used to be Athena with blue in the middle. Since the nerf there is more diversity. I still don't see many Hermes or Ares bases but there's enough variety to keep the game fresh.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post
            This is not taking into account that many alliances share strategies which directly promotes using the same powers and gods and patrons, whether that is Artemis, Ares, Apollo or any of the other very powerful gods

            Thorr eluded to some very interesting weakness a patron Artemis could have. Could he be suggesting the Artemis Monument being an excellent counter, maybe the Zeus Monument? Those highly ranged Gorgon Towers could certainly bypass the front line and reach Artemis, maybe that’s what he meant
            There is always assists too, if you keep Artemis busy fighting off defense assistance she does much less damage to buildings
            I think a simple fix for Arty is the multi-direction arrows. I believe Fritz called for it to be changed years ago calling it a "sea urchin"

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            • #66
              Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post

              The other patron gods have some pretty extreme abilities that would be easily OP if buffed, buffing them now could require them to be nerfed in the future simply because people start using them more.
              Some of them even have pretty significant bonuses depending on how they are used 🤐

              It comes down to the main complaint you seem to have is that “everyone” is using the same one, and outside of mandating which patron you use, there isn’t a great way to manage that. (I do not support mandating players to use a specific patron, I kind of really like the freedom of choice)

              Maybe requesting some really crazy ideas for new features down the line, like a button that gives you a random patron god (any god that you have all powers unlocked) for a bonus loot. SPECIAL NOTICE- This is a random example of what a request for additional content could look like to diversify play without nerfing and not a topic that has been discussed.
              Just balance out all the patron and not make one patron more superior than another

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Seaweed View Post

                Just balance out all the patron and not make one patron more superior than another
                Artemis is not superior to all other patrons, there are currently 10 different environments and almost limitless combinations of different level bonuses and city designs that can be made. Some of these combinations are very good at countering a patron Artemis.

                This is very different than the Athena environment bonus where Athena gave a massive boost to all buildings and all troops. Players have extremely good options in other gods as patron, but it is their choice which one to use. If the majority of players do not build cities that counter an Artemis attack, or many players promote the use of Artemis as patron because it benefits one style, then most people would naturally gravitate towards her.

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                • #68
                  Generally we have always given a strong preference to boosting things instead of nerfing things when possible. Nerfing things generally just makes people mad, because you often are directly forcing them to change a strategy that they believe works for them well. Unfortunately, sometimes a nerf is really the only reasonable way out of an imbalance situation. No doubt we'll take a look at patron Artemis for future releases. No guarantees for doing anything, and no guarantees for not doing anything. It may be that Artemis really needs a nerf, it may be that other patrons could use a boost. Or maybe the addition of new gods/towers/heroes/whatever makes any changes to Artemis patron totally unnecessary. In any case, TBD.

                  leroy

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post

                    Artemis is not superior to all other patrons, there are currently 10 different environments and almost limitless combinations of different level bonuses and city designs that can be made. Some of these combinations are very good at countering a patron Artemis.

                    This is very different than the Athena environment bonus where Athena gave a massive boost to all buildings and all troops. Players have extremely good options in other gods as patron, but it is their choice which one to use. If the majority of players do not build cities that counter an Artemis attack, or many players promote the use of Artemis as patron because it benefits one style, then most people would naturally gravitate towards her.
                    Then how come I had a level 120 player attack my base with Hades patron and lost to my level 100 base but suddenly a level 95 player with Artemis patron completely destroyed my base with only 5 gods.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Seaweed View Post

                      Then how come I had a level 120 player attack my base with Hades patron and lost to my level 100 base but suddenly a level 95 player with Artemis patron completely destroyed my base with only 5 gods.
                      Dude chill!

                      Just a level wont decide you win or loose. In my alliance or in GOO there are plenty of level 130+ at 4000 offence and few level 130 below at 5000 offence.

                      Dont you think attacking person skills matter?

                      Try green environment it counters arte unbelievably well!

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by leroy View Post
                        Generally we have always given a strong preference to boosting things instead of nerfing things when possible. Nerfing things generally just makes people mad, because you often are directly forcing them to change a strategy that they believe works for them well. Unfortunately, sometimes a nerf is really the only reasonable way out of an imbalance situation. No doubt we'll take a look at patron Artemis for future releases. No guarantees for doing anything, and no guarantees for not doing anything. It may be that Artemis really needs a nerf, it may be that other patrons could use a boost. Or maybe the addition of new gods/towers/heroes/whatever makes any changes to Artemis patron totally unnecessary. In any case, TBD.

                        leroy
                        Thanks leroy! We'll see what happens in the future releases and see how everything works out.

                        Btw I asked a question regarding Hero in "glitch in new update" post, and couple of other players were confused about it too. Could you check it out?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Thorr View Post

                          Dude chill!

                          Just a level wont decide you win or loose. In my alliance or in GOO there are plenty of level 130+ at 4000 offence and few level 130 below at 5000 offence.

                          Dont you think attacking person skills matter?

                          Try green environment it counters arte unbelievably well!
                          Nope not at all for me they need to take artemis temple and her monument and the rest is so weak.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Thorr View Post

                            Dude chill!

                            Just a level wont decide you win or loose. In my alliance or in GOO there are plenty of level 130+ at 4000 offence and few level 130 below at 5000 offence.

                            Dont you think attacking person skills matter?

                            Try green environment it counters arte unbelievably well!
                            What I mean is that player who use Artemis can easily beat me while player with any other patron will often struggle

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                            • #74
                              Well, then, you need longer ranged towers and more stronger buildings. Zeus monument and Artemis monument easily destroy artemis, patron or not, if the enemy has a small army. You just need to decimate their army and upgrade zeus and artemis monuments' health and damage a lot.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Athene View Post
                                Well, then, you need longer ranged towers and more stronger buildings. Zeus monument and Artemis monument easily destroy artemis, patron or not, if the enemy has a small army. You just need to decimate their army and upgrade zeus and artemis monuments' health and damage a lot.
                                I've been Team Hades since before even the patron update, tried little forays with others and none ever quite felt as fluid when attacking. Same with environment, never quite connected with any other besides Hades... Athena maybe... Either way, i took the advice given in your other thread and rid myself of ballistas to focus more on crowd control towers so medusas could blast that pesky Arty. Will see how it turns out. I'm level 102 and often get trashed by 10-20 levels higher than me so maybe the addition of two more medusas will help. Thanks!
                                Vi veri universum vivus vici

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