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  • #46
    This is true, I'm not sure about 90% but definitely majority of the players, based from my defense and alliance members.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Unspeakable1 View Post

      "Some" is a gross understatement. I'd wager that nearly 75-90% of all attacks against my city using the OL gods have Arty as patron. Athene even suggested Arty as patron in her advice thread. This is telling. Putting blame where it's due though, her rise in popularity is due to the sum total of nerfing happening. You give no incentive to choose another god as patron, further lessening robustly different strategies in a supposed strategy game. Of course, that's partly on the devs and majority on players since they're often the ones calling for nerfing. Unfortunately, the "fix" will likely be MORE nerfing instead of boosts. It's worked so well for player enjoyment. C'est la vie i guess.

      I'm rather irritated reading this response though. I've suggested numerous times that level needs to be a factor in many things and am shot down by different players AND devs... Only to see that the devs do consider level after all when comparing power level... Hmmm. But not with matching amiright?! Not important in that i guess. I'll digress...

      If it takes community feedback to stop nerfing, maybe we need a thread for forum members to just say "quit nerfing." How many would it take cuz I'll make one if that's the case?
      “I've suggested numerous times that level needs to be a factor in many things and am shot down by different players AND devs... Only to see that the devs do consider level after all when comparing power level... Hmmm. But not with matching amiright?! Not important in that i guess. I'll digress...”

      This would be taking any explanation out of context, account levels are never a good direct comparison because players are given huge freedom to level up and play however they want.
      Letting players determine how, when, and which god to level up without many requirements gives players a huge advantage in determining how they want to play, but it also makes account/account comparisons much harder.
      This was simply a response that there were multiple changes based on player feedback that should be factored into the conversation, and that no changes were made to Artemis, players (some, yes some) have gravitated towards her use.
      Next month players may move back to Hera or Ares, or maybe everyone will start using Apollo Patron. This would not mean that each of those require a nerf. But, this is just a discussion and everyone is entitled to their opinions....even the team.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post

        “I've suggested numerous times that level needs to be a factor in many things and am shot down by different players AND devs... Only to see that the devs do consider level after all when comparing power level... Hmmm. But not with matching amiright?! Not important in that i guess. I'll digress...”

        This would be taking any explanation out of context, account levels are never a good direct comparison because players are given huge freedom to level up and play however they want.
        Letting players determine how, when, and which god to level up without many requirements gives players a huge advantage in determining how they want to play, but it also makes account/account comparisons much harder.
        This was simply a response that there were multiple changes based on player feedback that should be factored into the conversation, and that no changes were made to Artemis, players (some, yes some) have gravitated towards her use.
        Next month players may move back to Hera or Ares, or maybe everyone will start using Apollo Patron. This would not mean that each of those require a nerf. But, this is just a discussion and everyone is entitled to their opinions....even the team.
        Nah most player still gonna use Artemis. Just remove the range buff and you will be amazed by how much more balanced it will be.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Seaweed View Post

          Nah most player still gonna use Artemis. Just remove the range buff and you will be amazed by how much more balanced it will be.
          If by balanced you mean everyone will switch their patron selection to Ares and Hera, then yeah, that would be very likely. It would be great to see more diverse use of all the patron gods but it is the player’s choice who they use. Using Artemis is a much slower battle than Ares and Poseidon for example, which means less loot per minute if a player is pushing to level. There are downsides to certain types of play using Artemis, just as with all gods their should be benefits and downsides depending on how you want to play the game at that time.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post

            “...account levels are never a good direct comparison because players are given huge freedom to level up and play however they want.
            Letting players determine how, when, and which god to level up without many requirements gives players a huge advantage in determining how they want to play, but it also makes account/account comparisons much harder.
            This was simply a response that there were multiple changes based on player feedback that should be factored into the conversation, and that no changes were made to Artemis, players (some, yes some) have gravitated towards her use.
            Next month players may move back to Hera or Ares, or maybe everyone will start using Apollo Patron. This would not mean that each of those require a nerf. But, this is just a discussion and everyone is entitled to their opinions....even the team.
            I definitely agree about not nerfing things. I can't say that enough. Please stop doing it!

            Where I disagree is that levels aren't a good direct comparison. It's a matter of skill versus power, which i think is where the breakdown in communication is happening (aside from my outbursts). Lv 10 players have accrued roughly similar amounts of resources as other lv 10 players. This is power, the amount of resources available to use. How a player uses them is skill. Replace lv 10 with any number you like, the gross resource gain is similar (not the same, varying depending on battle choice) to players of equal level. Let me phrase it like so, a nuclear bomb has more power than dynamite. Even in unskilled hands, its catastrophic. One needs more dynamite to make a similar dent as the nuclear bomb. The problem with the nerfing is that somethings, Arty for instance, have stayed nuclear whereas others have become dynamite. If you had to choose, which would you go for? Are these balances based on balancing skill (bad) or balancing power (good)? I completely agree that folks should choose whatever strategy they wish, but when the choice is heavily stacked because the power of something has been dropped, folks will naturally choose the more powerful option, like Arty and pre-nerf Paris.
            Vi veri universum vivus vici

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Unspeakable1 View Post

              I definitely agree about not nerfing things. I can't say that enough. Please stop doing it!

              Where I disagree is that levels aren't a good direct comparison. It's a matter of skill versus power, which i think is where the breakdown in communication is happening (aside from my outbursts). Lv 10 players have accrued roughly similar amounts of resources as other lv 10 players. This is power, the amount of resources available to use. How a player uses them is skill. Replace lv 10 with any number you like, the gross resource gain is similar (not the same, varying depending on battle choice) to players of equal level. Let me phrase it like so, a nuclear bomb has more power than dynamite. Even in unskilled hands, its catastrophic. One needs more dynamite to make a similar dent as the nuclear bomb. The problem with the nerfing is that somethings, Arty for instance, have stayed nuclear whereas others have become dynamite. If you had to choose, which would you go for? Are these balances based on balancing skill (bad) or balancing power (good)? I completely agree that folks should choose whatever strategy they wish, but when the choice is heavily stacked because the power of something has been dropped, folks will naturally choose the more powerful option, like Arty and pre-nerf Paris.
              I respect your passion but your numbers are not consistent with the game numbers. Accounts cannot be compared directly by levels because they may not/do not have equal distribution of Stone/Gold. If a player has focused heavy on completing Daily Challenges over regular attacks, over the lifetime of their account they have accrued more gold than a player of the same level that primarily made attacks. They have the same total resources gold+stone, but the they would be a higher offense level and lower defense level. For a true balance we have to take this into account and not assume a player is just more/less skilled.
              We have a similar thing to watch if an account has gemmed upgrades for buildings or gods, this can cause one side of their account to be more heavily strengthened than the other, and it would not be fair to compare them to an account that has not done the same.
              If an account gemmed a huge amount of stone into buildings, its defenses should be much stronger than an account of the same level that did not, or prioritized upgrading gods.
              These are very real scenarios that we see daily. Levels are not the best judge of balance because players have the freedom to focus their accounts towards offense or defense.
              There is nothing wrong with focusing your upgrades on either side, I just don’t want anyone being penalized by a broad level based comparison just because they chose to invest heavily in their gods or their defenses. If someone wanted to build a massive city with unfathomable amounts of stone, but didn’t really get to concerned with attacking, they can do so and shouldn’t have their defenses considered overpowered based on the amount of stone someone else of the same level has, that chose a heavy offense instead.

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              • #52
                I see lots of talk about Arte patron. I have seriously figured out how to handle arte in 1st wave. Its real simple common sense to counter her. I am not kidding drop by my alliance 1 day and see how to build effective base against arte patron. I think I qualify most about Arte patron since I was using just Arte patron since the day Patrons were introduced until couple of months back.

                Arte is powerful but weak. Very easy to counter. If someone uses her in 1st wave its even more easier to defend.

                I have 5 or 6 observations (derived from my own experience) and they are working real well. Yesterday whole day I got attacked by Arte patron people and my defense cups zoomed to 4368(I am level 126) something which was unbelievable. Even I won against higher levels too.

                1 best tip i suggest is: Build good Arte Base. 30% issue will be solved.

                Sooner or later I will be back to Arte patron as she is still my favourite but trust me she is easy to counter.

                Trust me she is easy to counter with few tricks.

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                • #53
                  Or just buff all the other patron like each point on Zeus health will be 2 percent increase and same with damage. Zeus chain lightning should do also be boosted by 3000% if you want anyone to use it.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post

                    If by balanced you mean everyone will switch their patron selection to Ares and Hera, then yeah, that would be very likely. It would be great to see more diverse use of all the patron gods but it is the player’s choice who they use. Using Artemis is a much slower battle than Ares and Poseidon for example, which means less loot per minute if a player is pushing to level. There are downsides to certain types of play using Artemis, just as with all gods their should be benefits and downsides depending on how you want to play the game at that time.
                    Just balance out all the patron so that people would actually use other patron beside Artemis, Artemis, Artemis, or Artemis. Nerf some patron thats too powerful or just buff the ones that too weak since all the player in my defense history only use Artemis or Artemis and nothing else beside Artemis

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Seaweed View Post

                      Just balance out all the patron so that people would actually use other patron beside Artemis, Artemis, Artemis, or Artemis. Nerf some patron thats too powerful or just buff the ones that too weak since all the player in my defense history only use Artemis or Artemis and nothing else beside Artemis
                      The other patron gods have some pretty extreme abilities that would be easily OP if buffed, buffing them now could require them to be nerfed in the future simply because people start using them more.
                      Some of them even have pretty significant bonuses depending on how they are used 🤐

                      It comes down to the main complaint you seem to have is that “everyone” is using the same one, and outside of mandating which patron you use, there isn’t a great way to manage that. (I do not support mandating players to use a specific patron, I kind of really like the freedom of choice)

                      Maybe requesting some really crazy ideas for new features down the line, like a button that gives you a random patron god (any god that you have all powers unlocked) for a bonus loot. SPECIAL NOTICE- This is a random example of what a request for additional content could look like to diversify play without nerfing and not a topic that has been discussed.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post

                        I respect your passion but your numbers are not consistent with the game numbers. Accounts cannot be compared directly by levels because they may not/do not have equal distribution of Stone/Gold. If a player has focused heavy on completing Daily Challenges over regular attacks, over the lifetime of their account they have accrued more gold than a player of the same level that primarily made attacks. They have the same total resources gold+stone, but the they would be a higher offense level and lower defense level. For a true balance we have to take this into account and not assume a player is just more/less skilled.
                        We have a similar thing to watch if an account has gemmed upgrades for buildings or gods, this can cause one side of their account to be more heavily strengthened than the other, and it would not be fair to compare them to an account that has not done the same.
                        If an account gemmed a huge amount of stone into buildings, its defenses should be much stronger than an account of the same level that did not, or prioritized upgrading gods.
                        These are very real scenarios that we see daily. Levels are not the best judge of balance because players have the freedom to focus their accounts towards offense or defense.
                        There is nothing wrong with focusing your upgrades on either side, I just don’t want anyone being penalized by a broad level based comparison just because they chose to invest heavily in their gods or their defenses. If someone wanted to build a massive city with unfathomable amounts of stone, but didn’t really get to concerned with attacking, they can do so and shouldn’t have their defenses considered overpowered based on the amount of stone someone else of the same level has, that chose a heavy offense instead.
                        This is little bit off the topic, but that is exactly why I suggested Daily Challenge loot ratio changed to 2:1 like all the other resources gained from the game. Such as normal battles, weekly challenges, quests and pretty much every single loot gaining methods are in 2:1 ratio apart from Daily Challenge. Why break this balance? Like you said, it then becomes really hard to use level as a method to see how much "power" player has for either offense and defense, and level should logically be the thing that demonstrates how much power player has. If Daily Challenge follows the other loot ratio as well, then everything becomes really really simple and straightforward with all the levels comparison and etc. Like why would... anyone not choose that? If you know what I mean. Like why would you prefer... anything other than that? Looking from "seeing the game as a whole" point of view.

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                        • #57
                          I'm sorry but just thought I would point that out. But to come back to the topic, he's kinda right CASTIEL, tbh. Like if Artemis is like a nuclear (to use his description), and others are like dynamite, certain balances should be placed. I would say editing how her range works (maybe reduce or maybe not let her fire off arrows beyond her demonstrated range) would definitely balance things while maintaining her other good aspects.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post

                            The other patron gods have some pretty extreme abilities that would be easily OP if buffed, buffing them now could require them to be nerfed in the future simply because people start using them more.
                            Some of them even have pretty significant bonuses depending on how they are used 🤐

                            It comes down to the main complaint you seem to have is that “everyone” is using the same one, and outside of mandating which patron you use, there isn’t a great way to manage that. (I do not support mandating players to use a specific patron, I kind of really like the freedom of choice)

                            Maybe requesting some really crazy ideas for new features down the line, like a button that gives you a random patron god (any god that you have all powers unlocked) for a bonus loot. SPECIAL NOTICE- This is a random example of what a request for additional content could look like to diversify play without nerfing and not a topic that has been discussed.
                            No but you could definitely balance things to the point where people will start to choose variety of patrons. Nerfing Athena environment is a great example. Everyone used to use Athena, but now players use every Environment. The general preference still exists, like Apollo or Hades (I personally prefer Aphrodite), but you could say balance is somewhat done in that aspect. So we could do something like that. Balance things so players use variety of things.

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                            • #59
                              Like I said, nothing too major. But maybe little bit editing with her range? How her range works, maybe give it a little limitation? Or something like that.

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                              • #60
                                This is not taking into account that many alliances share strategies which directly promotes using the same powers and gods and patrons, whether that is Artemis, Ares, Apollo or any of the other very powerful gods

                                Thorr eluded to some very interesting weakness a patron Artemis could have. Could he be suggesting the Artemis Monument being an excellent counter, maybe the Zeus Monument? Those highly ranged Gorgon Towers could certainly bypass the front line and reach Artemis, maybe that’s what he meant
                                There is always assists too, if you keep Artemis busy fighting off defense assistance she does much less damage to buildings

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