Does anyone actually think that centaurs were a positive addition to the game at all?

[Kane2]

Game is the easiest it has ever been, centaurs and heroes don’t bother me one bit. Play mono if it’s a pink base and push everyone else.
And regarding challenges, if the temples are spread out Apollo and Zeus are an instant skip. Not worth my time.

[xprs]

Sorry, I disagree that 1 centaur stable is the same as 7 non-upgrades. It is an easy test. Sell off all your academies and archery ranges and for every 7 you sell replace with one stable (and do not spend the extra money that you will have). Watch your trophies fall.

That said, I think there is certainly an argument that it is > 3, especially based on the current patrons mostly in use...

leroy

On bases with less than 4 centaur academies I'd agree and prefer 28 academies/ archery ranges, but when you can get 5+ centaur academies they will generally be more useful than 35+ academies/ ranges. Remember, you created a game that involves avoiding fighting the base, a horde of slow moving foot soldiers won't impact a monogod attack, centaurs will manage some damage however due to speed.

As I've said in the past, the root of all issues with this game reside in hermes regroup. Regroup makes mono attack possible, to counter op mono, insane things like centaurs were introduced. That's the sloppiest way of balancing a game. "Mono is op, so let's introduce op centaurs to reinforce mono as the only viable strategy, rather than removing or modifying regroup."

[xprs]

Game is the easiest it has ever been, centaurs and heroes don’t bother me one bit. Play mono if it’s a pink base and push everyone else.
And regarding challenges, if the temples are spread out Apollo and Zeus are an instant skip. Not worth my time.

I would hope they wouldn't bother you one bit, given you purchased and possess the strongest group of gods in the game. It's actually a wonder that you're not #1, but I suppose skill can't be purchased, shrug.

[Marshmalo]

I can still take out all OL dailies until 170 except Zeus and Apollo although with far more difficulty. I think the sudden spike in difficulty of the dailies even in the same level and amount of resources is attiributed to centaurs still being overpowered. I believe they (and certain overpowered heroes.... *cough* Atalanta *cough*) can be nerfed while other defenses are buffed to compensate and evenly distribute the power of a base across all defensive buildings. ☺️

[Kupo]

Sorry, I disagree that 1 centaur stable is the same as 7 non-upgrades. It is an easy test. Sell off all your academies and archery ranges and for every 7 you sell replace with one stable (and do not spend the extra money that you will have). Watch your trophies fall.

That said, I think there is certainly an argument that it is > 3, especially based on the current patrons mostly in use...

leroy

Already have, and the only reason my trophies stay high are because of them despite not playing the main game next to at all for a year. I have multiple bases and try and test a lot to find optimal. Without bonuses math still works out with basic stats no environment/house/temple bonuses.

Centaur Lvl 40
HP 2688
STR 2952
Attack Rate 0.8 (Excludes initial charge)
Speed 20
BONUS Charge +50% Str (4400 basically)
BONUS Speed +25% (25 speed default moment of charge)
Produced 3 sec

Academy Soldier Lvl 40
Unit HP 1075
Unit STR 328
Attack Rate 0.8 sec
Speed 15
Produced 1.5 sec

Artemis Lvl 70 max Strength is 2200 with 17 arrows that won't matter so much if near buildings. Your best defence against them past Apollo if you use him at start. By the time the 2nd arrow hits Art's already been hit basically by a default charge of 4400 while having 46900 hp at level 70. Every other god can at least defend themselves fairly against swarms of Academy/Archers or if they have sufficient other god to help them. It is easier to take on 7 Academy's per fairly than 1 Stable when they're enmass. If a map has less than 5 stables spread out at corners with houses, then I could possibly agree that 7 Academys are better especially early on. But once you reach lvl 100s and there's more than 5. After slow time or whatever ends, all those stables at the corners have spewed out tons for unstoppable charge attacks. And they have a limit of 40 per stable for some crazy reason.

You never hear anyone complaining on Spartans. I don't usually ***** on games, but this is a big exception because I've spent hundreds of dollars because I used to enjoy it for years. Now we're stuck with stupid mechanics that nobody likes, and stops you from enjoying or even playing the core game because of how extreme Centaurs are. I honestly feel ripped off, despite that all games evolve there's just nothing done right or seeming to even change fairly about this unit.

I really don't get how the fastest unit in the game, with an insane amount of basic health and damage gets 25-50% bonuses on top for simply being half a map away is balanced or fun. Especially when they lock onto a target and ignore every spawned unit nearby just to hit a god.

[xprs]

Already have, and the only reason my trophies stay high are because of them despite not playing the main game next to at all for a year. I have multiple bases and try and test a lot to find optimal. Without bonuses math still works out with basic stats no environment/house/temple bonuses.

Centaur Lvl 40
HP 2688
STR 2952
Attack Rate 0.8 (Excludes initial charge)
Speed 20
BONUS Charge +50% Str (4400 basically)
BONUS Speed +25% (25 speed default moment of charge)
Produced 3 sec

Academy Soldier Lvl 40
Unit HP 1075
Unit STR 328
Attack Rate 0.8 sec
Speed 15
Produced 1.5 sec

Artemis Lvl 70 max Strength is 2200 with 17 arrows that won't matter so much if near buildings. Your best defence against them past Apollo if you use him at start. By the time the 2nd arrow hits Art's already been hit basically by a default charge of 4400 while having 46900 hp at level 70. Every other god can at least defend themselves fairly against swarms of Academy/Archers or if they have sufficient other god to help them. It is easier to take on 7 Academy's per fairly than 1 Stable when they're enmass. If a map has less than 5 stables spread out at corners with houses, then I could possibly agree that 7 Academys are better especially early on. But once you reach lvl 100s and there's more than 5. After slow time or whatever ends, all those stables at the corners have spewed out tons for unstoppable charge attacks. And they have a limit of 40 per stable for some crazy reason.

You never hear anyone complaining on Spartans. I don't usually ***** on games, but this is a big exception because I've spent hundreds of dollars because I used to enjoy it for years. Now we're stuck with stupid mechanics that nobody likes, and stops you from enjoying or even playing the core game because of how extreme Centaurs are. I honestly feel ripped off, despite that all games evolve there's just nothing done right or seeming to even change fairly about this unit.

I really don't get how the fastest unit in the game, with an insane amount of basic health and damage gets 25-50% bonuses on top for simply being half a map away is balanced or fun. Especially when they lock onto a target and ignore every spawned unit nearby just to hit a god.

Excellent analysis. Unfortunately the devs don't seem to recognize that their player base consists of new players enjoying levels 1 - 80, before most quit around that level, and the core group of longtime players most of whom only keep playing due to sunk cost fallacy, all the while becoming more and more bitter towards the direction the game keeps moving in.

[leroy]

Already have, and the only reason my trophies stay high are because of them despite not playing the main game next to at all for a year. I have multiple bases and try and test a lot to find optimal. Without bonuses math still works out with basic stats no environment/house/temple bonuses.

Centaur Lvl 40
HP 2688
STR 2952
Attack Rate 0.8 (Excludes initial charge)
Speed 20
BONUS Charge +50% Str (4400 basically)
BONUS Speed +25% (25 speed default moment of charge)
Produced 3 sec

Academy Soldier Lvl 40
Unit HP 1075
Unit STR 328
Attack Rate 0.8 sec
Speed 15
Produced 1.5 sec

Artemis Lvl 70 max Strength is 2200 with 17 arrows that won't matter so much if near buildings. Your best defence against them past Apollo if you use him at start. By the time the 2nd arrow hits Art's already been hit basically by a default charge of 4400 while having 46900 hp at level 70. Every other god can at least defend themselves fairly against swarms of Academy/Archers or if they have sufficient other god to help them. It is easier to take on 7 Academy's per fairly than 1 Stable when they're enmass. If a map has less than 5 stables spread out at corners with houses, then I could possibly agree that 7 Academys are better especially early on. But once you reach lvl 100s and there's more than 5. After slow time or whatever ends, all those stables at the corners have spewed out tons for unstoppable charge attacks. And they have a limit of 40 per stable for some crazy reason.

You never hear anyone complaining on Spartans. I don't usually ***** on games, but this is a big exception because I've spent hundreds of dollars because I used to enjoy it for years. Now we're stuck with stupid mechanics that nobody likes, and stops you from enjoying or even playing the core game because of how extreme Centaurs are. I honestly feel ripped off, despite that all games evolve there's just nothing done right or seeming to even change fairly about this unit.

I really don't get how the fastest unit in the game, with an insane amount of basic health and damage gets 25-50% bonuses on top for simply being half a map away is balanced or fun. Especially when they lock onto a target and ignore every spawned unit nearby just to hit a god.

So right, lets finish up the math real quick.

Health/strength per second, for 7 hoplite academies vs 1 centaur.

Centaur lvl 40
HP: 2688
STR 2952 (but boosted to 4428 on first attack)

Academy Soldier lvl 40 (7)
HP: 1075 * 7 (buildings) * 2 (produced twice as fast) = 15050
STR: 328 * 7 (buildings) * 2 (produced twice as fast) = 4592

As you get higher levels, the tradeoff towards centaur becomes better and better because there is a scarcity of real estate. You literally just won't have space to fit 70 boosted academies with everything else you might want to put in there.

leroy

[leroy]

Already have, and the only reason my trophies stay high are because of them despite not playing the main game next to at all for a year. I have multiple bases and try and test a lot to find optimal. Without bonuses math still works out with basic stats no environment/house/temple bonuses.

Centaur Lvl 40
HP 2688
STR 2952
Attack Rate 0.8 (Excludes initial charge)
Speed 20
BONUS Charge +50% Str (4400 basically)
BONUS Speed +25% (25 speed default moment of charge)
Produced 3 sec

Academy Soldier Lvl 40
Unit HP 1075
Unit STR 328
Attack Rate 0.8 sec
Speed 15
Produced 1.5 sec

Artemis Lvl 70 max Strength is 2200 with 17 arrows that won't matter so much if near buildings. Your best defence against them past Apollo if you use him at start. By the time the 2nd arrow hits Art's already been hit basically by a default charge of 4400 while having 46900 hp at level 70. Every other god can at least defend themselves fairly against swarms of Academy/Archers or if they have sufficient other god to help them. It is easier to take on 7 Academy's per fairly than 1 Stable when they're enmass. If a map has less than 5 stables spread out at corners with houses, then I could possibly agree that 7 Academys are better especially early on. But once you reach lvl 100s and there's more than 5. After slow time or whatever ends, all those stables at the corners have spewed out tons for unstoppable charge attacks. And they have a limit of 40 per stable for some crazy reason.

You never hear anyone complaining on Spartans. I don't usually ***** on games, but this is a big exception because I've spent hundreds of dollars because I used to enjoy it for years. Now we're stuck with stupid mechanics that nobody likes, and stops you from enjoying or even playing the core game because of how extreme Centaurs are. I honestly feel ripped off, despite that all games evolve there's just nothing done right or seeming to even change fairly about this unit.

I really don't get how the fastest unit in the game, with an insane amount of basic health and damage gets 25-50% bonuses on top for simply being half a map away is balanced or fun. Especially when they lock onto a target and ignore every spawned unit nearby just to hit a god.

We are certainly open to suggestions for changes. So suggest stat updates to whatever you'd like, and maybe the changes will happen. (If you are suggesting centaurs are just removed, that won't happen.)

Another (additional) option could be having more upgrade levels for the 'basic' academies and archery ranges. It could make them more helpful at higher player levels.

For completeness, here are the level 40 stats for centaur archers and spartans.

Centaur Archer Lvl 40
HP 1344
STR 1181
Attack Rate 0.7
Speed 20
Produced 3 sec
Start with 4

Spartan Lvl 40
HP 2150
STR 1968
Produced 1.5 sec
Start with 8
Uncharmable w/uncharmable building

[Kupo]

We are certainly open to suggestions for changes. So suggest stat updates to whatever you'd like, and maybe the changes will happen. (If you are suggesting centaurs are just removed, that won't happen.)

Another (additional) option could be having more upgrade levels for the 'basic' academies and archery ranges. It could make them more helpful at higher player levels.

For completeness, here are the level 40 stats for centaur archers and spartans.

Centaur Archer Lvl 40
HP 1344
STR 1181
Attack Rate 0.7
Speed 20
Produced 3 sec
Start with 4

Spartan Lvl 40
HP 2150
STR 1968
Produced 1.5 sec
Start with 8
Uncharmable w/uncharmable building

My point is, it really doesn't matter how many academy/archery's (A/A's) there are when it comes to Centaurs, because more than 70% of the Centaurs are going to actually hit you with unblockable or defendable damage, they take more than 1 hit (at default stats with no buffs) and do far too much damage. They're unstoppable when charging and you can't outrun them, just lose whatever gods are on the field and usually in a group. When it's basic A/A units you have a chance and it was fine for years because they were slower, weaker, and allowed slow push to be feasible. They're a threat, but they're not so ridiculously oppressive you want to chuck your phone at the wall. Spartans are a threat all round and were worth their cost and fun to watch out for and make sure you target when you could.

By all means keep Centaurs in, it would be a massive waste not to. But change them drastically is what everyone probably would prefer. Make them on par with basic A/A's because of their speed, but quarter their default health/attack. Test or let us test it. The game used to be fun because you could choose whatever god combo you want even during meta shifts to keep the game fresh. Then it just devolved into this state where mono is so strong that it can't be damaged practically, and defense had to go to extremes to even damage. There is no fun playing with a short timer already, and now when slow time runs out it's like when Bomberman runs out of time and the map just caves in super fast to end it.

Make Centaurs strong in just 1 thing, something like speed so they make sense. Not in everything that it becomes the only thing everyone 100+ uses.

Why not try it for a weekly challenge? Make them balanced weak at 1 quarter their stats but at that speed. See what feedback is for it if people would prefer.

PS. Also thank you for the rewards update in Alliance wars! It's a lot better and worth it now to try win.

[xprs]

My point is, it really doesn't matter how many academy/archery's (A/A's) there are when it comes to Centaurs, because more than 70% of the Centaurs are going to actually hit you with unblockable or defendable damage, they take more than 1 hit and do far too much damage. They're unstoppable when charging and you can't outrun them, just lose whatever gods are on the field and usually in a group. When it's basic A/A units you have a chance and it was fine for years because they were slower, weaker, and allowed slow push to be feasible. They're a threat, but they're not so ridiculously oppressive you want to chuck your phone at the wall. Spartans are a threat all round and were worth their cost and fun to watch out for and make sure you target when you could.

By all means keep Centaurs in, it would be a massive waste not to. But change them drastically is what everyone probably would prefer. Make them on par with basic A/A's because of their speed, but quarter their default health/attack. Test or let us test it. The game used to be fun because you could choose whatever god combo you want even during meta shifts to keep the game fresh. Then it just devolved into this state where mono is so strong that it can't be damaged practically, and defense had to go to extremes to even damage. There is no fun playing with a short timer already, and now when slow time runs out it's like when Bomberman runs out of time and the map just caves in super fast to end it.

Make Centaurs strong in just 1 thing, something like speed so they make sense. Not in everything that it becomes the only thing everyone 100+ uses.

Why not try it for a weekly challenge? Make them balanced weak at 1 quarter their stats but at that speed. See what feedback is for it if people would prefer.

PS. Also thank you for the rewards update in Alliance wars! It's a lot better and worth it now to try win.

This right here. Speed allows them to actually hit the gods. I noticed a similar phenomenon in the earlier levels, where despite hoplites being on paper much stronger in health and attack than archers, archery ranges consistently provided significantly greater value in damage stats owing to slight speed increase and range, allowing then to actually connect their attacks on the gods. Centaurs are just the whole package, strength, speed, and with charge its the equivalent of having range.

[The Grim Reaper]

The other option is to stop playing and therefore stop spending. It’s not worth the frustration. So many other things to do.

[leroy]

The other option is to stop playing and therefore stop spending. It’s not worth the frustration. So many other things to do.

Thanks for your useful input.

leroy

[Nial]

The other option is to stop playing and therefore stop spending. It’s not worth the frustration. So many other things to do.

Let's be supportive, expressive and helpful? Try to help them make something better out of the game we all enjoy?

[hadeskrl]

The other option is to stop playing and therefore stop spending. It’s not worth the frustration. So many other things to do.

Fale por vc , invés de só reclamar deveríamos tentar ajudar ,e agradecer a equipe pelo seus esforços em melhorar o jogo , uma equipe que está sempre ouvindo os jogadores, tenha em mente que eles estão em total desempenho para trazer as melhores atualizações !

[Kupo]

The other option is to stop playing and therefore stop spending. It’s not worth the frustration. So many other things to do.

I think I've spent close to $1000 by now on gems alone since I started playing around 2019/2020. To me I don't mind because I'm supporting studios/teams etc that I like and this game has been among the best I've played. That is why I'm complaining by how far it's turned into something frustrating and not making sense. I'm not spending past needing gems for challenges and now they're ruined too. If you had really good fans for your game, and now they don't even bother to play the main one anymore. It's better to try do something about it because obviously it's a waste of resources to continue if the game's not for them.

People don't whine for the sake of it, they do because they want the games they love to improve or stay on track.