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  • #76
    Originally posted by Seaweed View Post
    But there are a lot of gap between patrons and I think it should be balanced out more rather than having certain patron much more powerful than others. Why use Zeus patron chain lightning when you can use Artemis patron spread shot to keep killing bunch of troops at once or Zeus lighting storm when Ares battle charge can take most temple out on less than a second in bloodlust. There is just too much of a gap between different patron and maybe some weaker patron get uses from time to time but it should be balanced so that all of the patron get picked often rather than one or two patrons always being picked and dominating the game.
    Lightning storm is different than battle charge.Battle charge does damage in a straight line, while Lightning storm has and effect on a less long, wider area. Also, if upgraded enough, Zeus chain lightning can go around the whole map, while spread shot can't. Also, chain shot has less reload time than spread shot (almost 50%), and can kill 58 soldiers at a time. I'm not sure how many when patron. Meanwhile, max upgraded spread shot (lasts 17 seconds) only kills 18 at a time. So, in 24 seconds, spread shot kills a maximum of 378 soldiers, and chain shot kills 116 soldiers. But, you can only control where one of the spread shots arrows go, and not the rest. So, Artemis will only kill around 200-300 soldiers in 24 seconds. Chain lightning will most of the time hit soldiers, but sometimes, buildings. So, about 100-110 soldiers killed. Artemis's hawk storm would also kill lots of soldiers. That's not fair for zeus. So, Artemis is second-best patron for killing troops, and Zeus is either fifth or sixth (only counting olympian gods. If not, then probably 10th or something). Ares is best, Artemis is second best, and Apollo, Poseidon, and Hades are all really good, too. If upgraded a lot, then Aphrodite is probably good, too. Tidal wave and/or water blast are all really good at killing troops, Apollo's thingy (explosive arrows) are also good at it, and Hades can really get a huge skeleton army to counter the enemies. So, you can see that Artemis isn't that unbalanced.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Athene View Post

      Lightning storm is different than battle charge.Battle charge does damage in a straight line, while Lightning storm has and effect on a less long, wider area. Also, if upgraded enough, Zeus chain lightning can go around the whole map, while spread shot can't. Also, chain shot has less reload time than spread shot (almost 50%), and can kill 58 soldiers at a time. I'm not sure how many when patron. Meanwhile, max upgraded spread shot (lasts 17 seconds) only kills 18 at a time. So, in 24 seconds, spread shot kills a maximum of 378 soldiers, and chain shot kills 116 soldiers. But, you can only control where one of the spread shots arrows go, and not the rest. So, Artemis will only kill around 200-300 soldiers in 24 seconds. Chain lightning will most of the time hit soldiers, but sometimes, buildings. So, about 100-110 soldiers killed. Artemis's hawk storm would also kill lots of soldiers. That's not fair for zeus. So, Artemis is second-best patron for killing troops, and Zeus is either fifth or sixth (only counting olympian gods. If not, then probably 10th or something). Ares is best, Artemis is second best, and Apollo, Poseidon, and Hades are all really good, too. If upgraded a lot, then Aphrodite is probably good, too. Tidal wave and/or water blast are all really good at killing troops, Apollo's thingy (explosive arrows) are also good at it, and Hades can really get a huge skeleton army to counter the enemies. So, you can see that Artemis isn't that unbalanced.
      Artemis insane range shouldn't be that much increased at least, it just make her so much harder to kill and Artemis spread shot can take down large number of defenses in an area while other patron beside Hera cant do. The range should just be less and it would be much more balanced since she can just shoot so far and if the range is less than she can still destroy lot of defense in an area but just not in a scale that makes her over powered.

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      • #78
        Exactly;
        Artemis' already wide range boosting with spread-shot, which even further increases with patronizing makes it really hard for compact bases to endure the classic slow-push, since the spread shot, easily managing twelve nice shots at once, can reap a building or temple of its house boosts, making them alot easier to take out. The range surely is over-powered.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Orion View Post
          Exactly;
          Artemis' already wide range boosting with spread-shot, which even further increases with patronizing makes it really hard for compact bases to endure the classic slow-push, since the spread shot, easily managing twelve nice shots at once, can reap a building or temple of its house boosts, making them alot easier to take out. The range surely is over-powered.
          Can someone at least start a thread with this topic (even though I can't imagine what new content would be posted at this point), versus hijacking every other one to spam nerf arty patron agenda?

          Yall realize that throwing nerfs around left and right will undoubtedly cause secondary effects that will upset the player base? If arty is nerfed, allllll those players will be forced to change strategies or go back to posy patron minus the few who actually slow pushed before. ....then what....calls for posy nerfs on forums - the answer is yes here bc that's all forums ever seem to unit over is nerfing. At least with arty you actually face the entirety of the map (and assisters) versus sidestep 90% of it...same end result.

          I understand the sentiment behind this - you'd like to see other patrons used - got it....but the messaging should be that and not "nerf nerf nerf." Almost seemed to shift that direction but fell right back into the nerf talk.

          And as someone who uses arty patron and has for years,, I'd challenge you to use her.. you'll find that the matches do in fact get harder and arty patron isn't the instant cheat code you all are making her out to be and there's a lot to be said for the players skill level.

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          • #80
            I think developers already said they will consider nerfing Artemis for the future releases. Not sure if it will come through, but they said they'll definitely CONSIDER it. So let's just wait it out and see what happens :P Not too late to discuss it after that.

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            • #81
              Artemis patron range should be reduced by 50 percent. Poseidon patron water blast damage should be reduced by 25 percent and range reduced by 10 percent. Ares is fine. Zeus needs some love for sure. The remaining gods I don’t really have any comments but Underworld needs a patron option, 2 more gods, and 1 that can tackle the gorgon problem.

              Chris

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              • #82
                They should nerf Artemis patron to balance it out more, not to the point where they hardly have any potential left like some certain patrons. Currently Artemis patron is overall more powerful compared to the other patrons and is unbalanced with a big gap between most patron from what it seems.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Rocko View Post

                  Can someone at least start a thread with this topic (even though I can't imagine what new content would be posted at this point), versus hijacking every other one to spam nerf arty patron agenda?

                  Yall realize that throwing nerfs around left and right will undoubtedly cause secondary effects that will upset the player base? If arty is nerfed, allllll those players will be forced to change strategies or go back to posy patron minus the few who actually slow pushed before. ....then what....calls for posy nerfs on forums - the answer is yes here bc that's all forums ever seem to unit over is nerfing. At least with arty you actually face the entirety of the map (and assisters) versus sidestep 90% of it...same end result.

                  I understand the sentiment behind this - you'd like to see other patrons used - got it....but the messaging should be that and not "nerf nerf nerf." Almost seemed to shift that direction but fell right back into the nerf talk.

                  And as someone who uses arty patron and has for years,, I'd challenge you to use her.. you'll find that the matches do in fact get harder and arty patron isn't the instant cheat code you all are making her out to be and there's a lot to be said for the players skill level.
                  Honestly, I'm not as concerned about any nerfs at the moment, and am quite, if not entirely, satisfied with my base. I was merely expressing my opinions deduced from what I have heard around. I'm as bothered of Artemis, or any character getting nerfed or buffed right now as Apollo might be of getting incinerated by his own chariot. Sure enough, nerfs can change and devastate whole strategies, but what's the fun without some change?

                  As for the "nerf talk", I have no wish of seeing other patrons used, I myself use different patrons in accordance of the situation, Hermes being the most frequent.

                  Artemis might not be the only big thing in arty slow push, but she certainly is a force of higher importance than others, which is nearly the whole point of choosing only one patron. Also, I haven't used Artemis patron except challenges, and must admit, I'm not that accomplished at it; better stick to Hermes :/

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Seaweed View Post
                    They should nerf Artemis patron to balance it out more, not to the point where they hardly have any potential left like some certain patrons. Currently Artemis patron is overall more powerful compared to the other patrons and is unbalanced with a big gap between most patron from what it seems.
                    In the lowest levels, Poseidon's very much clearly the big destructive god, like, you see the kraken, bam goes the hope

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by War Hammer View Post
                      Artemis patron range should be reduced by 50 percent. Poseidon patron water blast damage should be reduced by 25 percent and range reduced by 10 percent. Ares is fine. Zeus needs some love for sure. The remaining gods I don’t really have any comments but Underworld needs a patron option, 2 more gods, and 1 that can tackle the gorgon problem.

                      Chris
                      The only problem with that logic, is that it never ends. Nerfing is just a circular game of whack a mole....if all those recommendations were inserted, everyone would just use hera again. Then people would be on forums clamoring for a hera nerf.

                      Maybe, instead of everyone being the "Oprah of nerfs" (arty gets a nerf, posy gets a nerf, nerfs for everyone) we just consider incentivizing other patrons with slight adjustments without degrading current ones? I'd love to see hermes, hades, aphrodite, etc used more frequently as well - but not at the expense of nerfing. That forces me to adjust my play experience to "your" opinion (not personal here, just meant those opposing arty patron)

                      Or, since there was no patch that im aware of that boosted arty...someone just got the bright idea to pair with inspiration and all the sudden she's OP (don't remember ppl saying she was OP until after the recent atk trend)...maybe there are other combinations that no ones really figured out yet? It wasn't long ago that everyone was slow pushing with hera as tank, then in about a months time people adjusted strategies based on the arty/inspiration configuration and now athena is more popular tank....as examples.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Rocko View Post

                        The only problem with that logic, is that it never ends. Nerfing is just a circular game of whack a mole....if all those recommendations were inserted, everyone would just use hera again. Then people would be on forums clamoring for a hera nerf.

                        Maybe, instead of everyone being the "Oprah of nerfs" (arty gets a nerf, posy gets a nerf, nerfs for everyone) we just consider incentivizing other patrons with slight adjustments without degrading current ones? I'd love to see hermes, hades, aphrodite, etc used more frequently as well - but not at the expense of nerfing. That forces me to adjust my play experience to "your" opinion (not personal here, just meant those opposing arty patron)

                        Or, since there was no patch that im aware of that boosted arty...someone just got the bright idea to pair with inspiration and all the sudden she's OP (don't remember ppl saying she was OP until after the recent atk trend)...maybe there are other combinations that no ones really figured out yet? It wasn't long ago that everyone was slow pushing with hera as tank, then in about a months time people adjusted strategies based on the arty/inspiration configuration and now athena is more popular tank....as examples.
                        Or we can just balance things out not nerf it so its gonna be super weak. I want her to be nerf to the point where she is about just as good as other patrons.

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                        • #87
                          guys, i made separate post for patrons xD if you guys want to continue, move it to that one :P this post was about hero and i think that topic is somewhat done

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by JKs View Post
                            I think developers already said they will consider nerfing Artemis for the future releases. Not sure if it will come through, but they said they'll definitely CONSIDER it. So let's just wait it out and see what happens :P Not too late to discuss it after that.
                            This is the quote you are referring to

                            “Generally we have always given a strong preference to boosting things instead of nerfing things when possible. Nerfing things generally just makes people mad, because you often are directly forcing them to change a strategy that they believe works for them well. Unfortunately, sometimes a nerf is really the only reasonable way out of an imbalance situation. No doubt we'll take a look at patron Artemis for future releases. No guarantees for doing anything, and no guarantees for not doing anything. It may be that Artemis really needs a nerf, it may be that other patrons could use a boost. Or maybe the addition of new gods/towers/heroes/whatever makes any changes to Artemis patron totally unnecessary. In any case, TBD.

                            leroy”


                            This quote is about looking into the discussion about patrons. Please be careful not to misquote the development team to make your argument.

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                            • #89
                              Oh.. even after rereading, I still take it leroy meant he will consider about nerfing Artemis? :P I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but I think he said it may be that we don't need a nerf but this will definitely be discussed amongst the team. Plus I wasn't making any argument, all I literally said in the comment was "let's wait it out and see what happens" xD But yeah, you're right, we should be careful with quoting and stuff. I also started another post regarding patron discussion, so if anyone else would like to continue discussing regarding patron, we could move on there.

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                              • #90
                                It stated what it stated. Will look, and could be that it needs are not as strongly worded as “considering” as you have now stated 4 times. It also goes on to state many other possibilities. Please do not change the intention of the development teams wording by rewording a post to fit your side of the argument. Here the “argument” being your desire to nerf Artemis.

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