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Round 21 ???

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  • Round 21 ???


    Each time I finish round 20, I discover that there is no round 21, and it only appears 2 days later (and I therefore lose the advantage of having finished it first 😭). why not anticipate and prepare a round 21 when round 20 is relatively easy ???

  • #2
    First of all, I'm a huge fan of yours Yoda, your skills are magnificent!

    With regard to you beating level 20, I can totally understand your frustration! However, the problem is that you guys are sooooooo good that it's usually only you and a handful of other players that are even capable of beating level 20. So it can be a bit tricky to predict if the level will be difficult enough that you guys won't be able to beat it while still being playable enough that you won't all get the exact same score.

    We don't think it sounds very fair to have one of you test it beforehand, because that would give that person a huge advantage over the others. Creating a 2nd impossible level is something that we can do but the 1st impossible level is already supposed to be impossible! You guys are just so good that you beat these levels that we are certain no human could be capable of beating.

    The reason that we usually wait to see if any of you can beat it is that it provides us with a baseline to hopefully make another impossible level that won't be too difficult for anybody to have any progress on at all.

    Do you think that creating a 2nd impossible level in advance that is so difficult that everybody is likely to get a very similar score is a solution you feel would be more fair?
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    • #3
      sorry for my english

      First thank you for your response and compliments !

      Personally I don't really like challenges like this week and last week, where everyone gets almost the same score.
      Having rubbed shoulders with a lot of more or less strong players at the challenge, I think that most are of this opinion. I think these players don't like having more than ~ 5 players finishing the last level.
      So I think we have to find a compromise with a level that is not too obvious, but where we do not all end up with the same score.

      From there follow a questions:
      Do you have a way to test the levels yourself before the challenge without going into the ranking to test the difficulty?
      If yes it would make it possible to prepare a level 19 or 20 very very difficult and a level 20 or 21 impossible but where the solution to make the best score would not be obvious as in the challenge this week.

      When having the levels tested by a player and not a developer a day earlier, this indeed poses several problems and this solution seems to me unthinkable for the moment but remains to be thought about.

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      • #4
        Exactly. Tried discussing in another thread about the difference between a well-designed challenge vs a poorly designed challenge (where it's obvious what you have to do resulting in identical scores). Unfortunately, I was met with some platitudes about rewarding people for some reason who have no jobs or obligations and are able to attempt the challenge the immediate moment it is available. Yoda is consistently at the top of challenges and HE is unhappy with challenges lately, one of which he even won. This is quite telling.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Fritz View Post
          Exactly. Tried discussing in another thread about the difference between a well-designed challenge vs a poorly designed challenge (where it's obvious what you have to do resulting in identical scores). Unfortunately, I was met with some platitudes about rewarding people for some reason who have no jobs or obligations and are able to attempt the challenge the immediate moment it is available. Yoda is consistently at the top of challenges and HE is unhappy with challenges lately, one of which he even won. This is quite telling.
          This is exactly why any reply to player feedback becomes problematic. Any reply is met with an over the top dissection of the comment with an assumed negative intent and derogatory jab rather than looking at the overall comment. There will always be a high point of a challenge is not surpassed by players. We are always watching the stats of the challenges and open to player feedback for future challenges, but there will always remain a top.
          A direct explanation and question as to the creation of a second even more impossible round vs a complex impossible round that may have players reaching the same score was left unresponsive for a week. This scenario was brought up in advance and a more difficult level was created to prevent the first player reaching top score from losing their advantage of reaching that score first. This challenge meets the direct complaint of this thread.
          Insulting the players that value the game and challenges by assuming their employment status or lack of attention to their other personal obligations is extremely immature.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Fritz View Post
            Exactly. Tried discussing in another thread about the difference between a well-designed challenge vs a poorly designed challenge (where it's obvious what you have to do resulting in identical scores). Unfortunately, I was met with some platitudes about rewarding people for some reason who have no jobs or obligations and are able to attempt the challenge the immediate moment it is available. Yoda is consistently at the top of challenges and HE is unhappy with challenges lately, one of which he even won. This is quite telling.

            I'm not really unhappy, I'm just trying to give my opinion to improve the challenge.

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            • #7
              I stand corrected. I see that after everyone sitting on the same score for an entire day, one person got further. Then after a few hours, the entire leaderboard, that was stuck at the exact same score for a whole day, has now beaten 20 AND 21? So is the problem then that few of the players actually figure out a solution and it's all just solution sharing at this point? Crazy. Not sure giving the biggest sharer of solutions a platform in the News a while back was really the wisest move.

              Join 'Strength & Honor!' and receive a coupon for one free assist by Fritz! Whiners need not apply.

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              • #8
                Honest question: why does it matter if someone shares? If they want their moment in the sun... shine on. Isn’t it the same reason that sports highlights are on tv?

                I’ve often thought that a GOO weekly/monthly highlights might be kinda cool. I for one watched Phoenix take down Kittens base several times cause it was cool to watch somebody do something I couldn’t.

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                • #9
                  Sharing is a choice the player makes. Overall sharing how to beat levels while the challenge is still going limits new techniques from emerging because players focus on replicating another players success rather than finding success on their own, in their own style with their own skill. Sharing while the challenge is active also prevents players who would naturally be on the leaderboard of their own merits because those spots are filled by someone who chose to replicate another players high score.
                  If a player with a high score wants their moment in the sun, sharing the successful attack after the finish of the challenge would be just as amazing to watch.

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                  • #10
                    Fair enough. As a developer you’d probably like for people to figure out things organically. (But when I use a video to pass a board I gem the bonus.... so it’s not all bad for you)

                    However I will say even watching videos doesn’t always equate to passing it. There are plenty times where I’ve watched a video of a board only to struggle with it for 20 min before giving it up.

                    Also consider that a player can learn from these videos. It’s one thing to watch it afterwards but another when you can see what someone did before you try it yourself.

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                    • #11

                      You both say good arguments ^^, maybe you're both right. For my part, I learned from videos and that's why I'm so strong today but I completely agree with castiel when he says that videos "spoil" the inventiveness of players who are just trying to copy the videos.

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                      • #12
                        I am not condemning the action just as I do not condone sharing. It is an individual players choice, and that choice has consequences for the community (primarily the leaderboard)
                        This is very similar to a players choice of copying another’s gods/powers and attack method or another’s city design. This affects the leaderboard mostly as players are competing for the highest rank and copy another’s success for the same results. The mid and mid-high level accounts are enjoying a much more diverse experience seeing and using different patrons, environments, and playing with all types of builds because they are playing from a less restrictive game zone and not directed by their trophy rank as a person on the leaderboard. The odd thing with this is it gives ranking players 5-10 city variants to attack making their job as an attacker much easier. If everyone had individual styled cities it would become much more difficult to attack having to calculate different environments, heroes, temple bonuses, and different ratios of Spartans, gorgons and towers in every single attack. The chance of a miscalculation is much higher.!This again is the players choice, but copying really puts ranking players in a box where other levels are able to really enjoy a larger amount of the unlock-able content by not feeling the need to match other accounts trophy levels.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CASTIEL View Post
                          Sharing is a choice the player makes. Overall sharing how to beat levels while the challenge is still going limits new techniques from emerging because players focus on replicating another players success rather than finding success on their own, in their own style with their own skill. Sharing while the challenge is active also prevents players who would naturally be on the leaderboard of their own merits because those spots are filled by someone who chose to replicate another players high score.
                          If a player with a high score wants their moment in the sun, sharing the successful attack after the finish of the challenge would be just as amazing to watch.
                          100%. Share after and people can learn and also think your awesome or whatever. Share during and everyone just copies and probably aren't even learning all that much since they're just imitating and many probably aren't even thinking. As Castiel later said, it's the same with bases. The focus seems to be on everyone doing whatever it takes to get more gems, get more trophies, get more everything rather than on just enjoying the game and having fun. Personally, I find it fun beating a challenge round when I figure it out by myself. I often look at the "ones who share" after I beat a round to see if they did it the same (and have my own personal moment in the sun when my method is a better method).
                          Join 'Strength & Honor!' and receive a coupon for one free assist by Fritz! Whiners need not apply.

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                          • #14
                            Point taken.

                            But aren’t you just guilty as wanting more cups and trophies? It would only seem that your gripe is because these “sharers” have knocked you off/down the leaderboard. (Depriving you of cups/gems/glory beyond your wildest dreams)

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                            • #15
                              I know it will be very hard to regulate or I should just say impossible but want to do challenge no one share their strategy one day. DIY. It will be fun
                              Last edited by Mario; June 28, 2020, 12:06 AM.

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